Love Your Body Now
Love Your Body Now
Navigating Disordered Eating & Embracing Body Neutrality with Psychotherapist Ariel Newman
Get ready to dive into some real talk with Ariel Newman, a psychotherapist who specializes in eating disorders and body image. In this episode, we're pulling back the curtain on these tricky issues that seriously mess with how we see ourselves and live our lives.
We chat with Ariel about her move from working in schools to private practice, getting a unique view on how common these problems are among teens and why we all need to be more clued up and supportive.
Ariel shares some super practical tips for anyone dealing with body image struggles. We're facing those stereotypes and pressures society throws at us, all while pushing for a mindset of body neutrality and self-love. You'll get pointers on connecting with health professionals who are all about health at every size and why feeling good in your skin is more about how you feel inside than what others think.
Join us for an eye-opening episode that's not just about learning but feeling empowered. Let's navigate the tough but crucial topic of eating disorders and body image.
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Today we have a special guest on the podcast, ariel Newman.
Speaker 2:She is a psychotherapist based out of Idaho and she has her own practice where she actually focuses on helping people with eating and body image disorders, and it's really cool how we actually connected and found each other. Ariel actually had purchased a item from my shop and it was one of our shirts that said love your body now, and it just led to this connection where I learned who she was and why she was interested in purchasing the shirt and how she found me, and I just couldn't help but want to invite her on the podcast because I thought it was just going to be such a great conversation for people who struggle with eating disorders, body image or even just toxic eating behaviors.
Speaker 2:So we dove into this conversation and it was really valuable.
Speaker 1:So I'm really excited for you to dive in and learn more from her and just take away so many different great tips and just stories that she shares in general. So, without further ado, let's dive in. Welcome to the love your body now podcast, the podcast for women who are ready to feel confident in their body right now and redefine what health looks like for them. I'm Savannah, your host, and together we'll be having conversations about what it means to accept and love our bodies now, while simultaneously prioritizing our health journey. We'll be debunking beliefs that do not serve us and diving into misconceptions and unhealthy narratives in the fitness world, so that we can rebuild our foundation from a place of self-love.
Speaker 2:Ariel, thank you so much for joining the podcast today and agreeing to share knowledge and just provide value for the listeners. So before we jump into the discussion for today, just go ahead and briefly share about you and who you are and a fun fact.
Speaker 3:Okay, my name is Ariel Newman and I am a licensed professional counselor in Idaho. I came from the world of education, so I was an English teacher beforehand and then I worked in schools as a school therapist. I did a lot of time, a lot of time. I did a lot of work in alternative education settings Okay, that was kind of my jam, so alternative adolescence and I found that many of them had pretty intense struggles with their bodies. That is kind of what led me here.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, that was kind of when I was reading about how you got into what you do. I was very curious like how going from like being a school therapist like led you to wanting to specifically work with people who struggle with eating disorders and body image. Did you find that a lot of the students were mostly girls, or did you find that it was boys and girls?
Speaker 3:I think it's both. I think it's mostly women who come to the surface and are more vocal about it, but there are absolutely male students who discussed their own struggles with their bodies, whether that was like being an athlete or being overweight and having a hard time with their body. It rinsed the gamut really.
Speaker 2:So then, what was the process like for you to transition from school therapists to like really going all in on that specific group? It was scary.
Speaker 3:Actually it was really scary. So during graduate school my studies were grief, trauma and crisis, and then my research specialty is eating disorders. So anytime I had to do an assignment I would do my best to have it geared toward eating disorders. But it was a scary jump to go from being in a school to being on my own kind of a lone island.
Speaker 2:Do you have your own like physical location or do you do mostly online work?
Speaker 3:So I have an office. It's a shared office so there are other businesses in there, but I am the only counselor in the office. I also do telehealth throughout the state of Idaho.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how long have you been doing it now?
Speaker 3:Only about a year and a half.
Speaker 2:Well, still, I mean a decent amount of time, cool, cool. Can you share more about like your perspective on like seeing clients that struggle with body image or eating disorders, like what you feel like the biggest impact it has on their quality of life? Because I feel like like a lot of people don't see it as like this debilitating thing and they don't. It's just like, oh yeah, like that's just it's so common for so many people to have this internal struggle and it's just like it's almost like a part of our life, how common it is. And I'm curious to like get your take on like the impact it has on people's quality of life to where they may not even understand that it's like impacting them so much because they're on autopilot, you know they're not super aware of it.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, their quality of life is absolutely impacted in every possible way. Excuse me, first and foremost is the relationship with self, and before they even recognize that there's a problem, there's all of a sudden now a skewed relationship that they have with their own body, with food, with themselves, and then that rolls over into how their relationships with others happen, or their willingness to be in a relationship with others. Eating disorders generally are very hidden, and so people tend to hide. It's part of why, when COVID happened and everybody was home, the eating disorder in need rose tremendously. Because it was hiding, even if it was purposeful, in order not to get COVID. It really was the perfect recipe for an eating disorder to continue doing its thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When someone's diagnosed with an eating disorder, where do you, I don't want to say, draw the line? But there's a lot of People struggle with a lot of toxic eating behaviors and a toxic mindset around their eating habits. So what is the fine line between someone's actually diagnosed with an eating disorder versus someone who just has a very skewed relationship with their eating habits?
Speaker 3:Okay, this is a great question. It a lot of times depends on the person, but there's the DSM-5, the diagnostic manual, which is like the Bible pretty much for counselors. It's a different criteria and each one of the diagnoses for an eating disorder is a different criteria such as ortho-exia is not yet in the DSM, but it's very much still treated as a disorder. Anorexia nervosa is in the DSM, but atypical anorexia isn't. So the fine line, I think, is how much then it affects them and you can have disordered eating patterns without having an eating disorder. It's really the effect it has on their life.
Speaker 2:What is the first one? You said ortho, ortho-exia, what?
Speaker 3:is that so? It's seen a lot in athletes. It's the obsession with health, a lot of this like anti-toxic super food idea. Generally, the goal is not to lose weight, but it is to be the utmost healthiest version of yourself, and I can have to do both with like exercise and food.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting because so I don't know how much you've looked into what I've shared about my own personal story, but I struggled with body image growing up I would say kind of like on a severe level but I was never diagnosed with like an eating disorder or anything along those lines but very skewed relationship with myself and my body. I grew up playing sports a lot and after I got out of sports it was interesting because that's kind of when I started this whole journey and like building this, my platform, you know to talk about these things because I was very worried after retiring from my sport. I played college softball. I was worried that I was going to like kind of like fall off, you know of my. I've always been told, you know, or forced, I guess, to like have these workout routines and it was just always integrated into my life and I was very like concerned of what that was going to look like outside of the sport. And that's when I started getting into health coaching and starting to really focus on my health journey and it kind of transitioned from like this disordered way of looking at my body and like always training really hard and then became this like obsession of becoming my healthiest self and like having the utmost discipline with my eating habits and like never taking a break from my workouts and like looking on the outside and I looked fantastic, you know, whatever, whatever. Like you know, the idea of like what someone looks like is to be fantastic or whatever. But I definitely was at like I guess you could say like the healthiest physical self. But that is kind of. When I realized that the obsession just shifted, like it wasn't, it wasn't the same as it was before and I thought, because I was more disciplined and like doing things a little differently, I like convinced myself that I was healthier for it.
Speaker 2:And after I started to realize that about myself, I started talking about it more and like kind of preaching, like, hey, like health looks different for everyone. You know, we it's not black and white, like it doesn't have to be like this perfect thing or you look a certain way. And it kind of forced me to let go of some of those expectations and sit in that uncomfortable. I mean I still struggle with it. You know I'm not like.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely like I've definitely gained weight. I can tell like I can just feel it with, like my clothes. I don't actually weigh myself anymore, but I can tell and it's like having to let go of that control is really, really challenging and I feel like people don't talk about that a lot because it's disguised as like but they're healthy, you know, on the outside they look fantastic or whatever and it's it's almost like another like disguised disorder and I mean I could even get into. Like when I see the, the fitness competitions, I'm like, how does like so many people praise it and I, I, I hate being the person like that talks down on like people that you know put in work for stuff, but like, to me it's like this is just a like glamorized way of like toxic behavior. Like I don't, I don't see how it's good for you at all, but I mean, what is your? What are your thoughts on some of that?
Speaker 3:There's so many thoughts. So, first and foremost, is society enables the ultra healthy not mentally healthy the idea of what you look like being healthy. So, coaches like you were talking about your time in sports. I wish that coaches had more background, knowledge and understanding of how bodies work when it comes to mental health or eating disorders or even bio individuality for certain athletes. I've heard coaches say things like come on work now so you can have that Thanksgiving meal. You know, earn your food. Things like that. Here's what you can and can't eat.
Speaker 3:Make sure that you're the healthiest version of yourself and generally when, when they're saying that it's the physical aspect of what you see, it's not performance. It can be, but rarely do I hear it as the healthiest mental health version of yourself. And the first thing that you have to do as an athlete is have good mental health. Everything else will follow. The other thing is that rigidity of thought is a huge part of eating disorders, especially ortho-exia. A rigidity of thought is kind of what keeps it going. I have to do this. There is no gray area. It's black or white. This is health, this isn't. And when you get away from that rigidity of thought, what you also have the opportunity to do is heal, and that's why it's so tough to heal is because you're changing an entire thought process. You're changing your relationship to your thoughts, to food and your body. It's tough stuff.
Speaker 2:It really is, and I mean I've been. I feel like I learned so much about myself every day just going through this process and I claim to be, you know, like a health expert or whatever, but it's like it's really just. I mean you're just constantly learning about yourself and your thoughts on everything. I mean I remember, like my my years as a softball athlete. I remember I remember we had to do these weigh-ins and it was at the gym. It was in our college gym, like our shared gym, and they had us all like getting on scales in that weight room with like everyone else working around, like it was the most. And I remember feeling so yeah.
Speaker 2:It was so humiliating for me even though, like you know, the men are like our strength and conditioning coach was a male and he was great, but like he doesn't, he doesn't get it, you know and for a woman to have to go and step on a scale in front of all of her teammates, in front of all of her coaches, and I don't know like I just I remember that being, I remember it so clearly, like how it felt, like feeling like I wasn't, I don't know like.
Speaker 2:It was just so humiliating and I used to do powerlifting as well, and that's another sport where you, your weight, is displayed for everyone to see. And I remember it like I talk, I talked I've talked about this before where I felt like the sport, I was able to kind of channel some of the emotions that I was struggling with, but at the same time, I was also internally fighting with myself. So it was like this weird relationship that I had with my sports, where it was like I'm channeling this net, like this energy, into something that feels like it in turn feels good because I'm working out, but then, at the same time, it's also feeding into this narrative that I have about myself that I have to look a certain way, I have to perform a certain way and I have to be a certain size in order to feel like I'm successful and that I'm like achieving and and you know, that was something I fed off of for the longest time- Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean, how could you not? By being weighed in front of all your teammates are literally being categorized against them.
Speaker 2:Do you often see that, like with your clientele? Do you see a lot of people that come from that sports background, or is it like every?
Speaker 3:everywhere. It's across the board. I, you know, we see all these glamorized. I use glamorize in like a satirical way. Not the eating disorders are truly glamorized, but like when Hollywood movies come out and there is somebody with an eating disorder, it is glamorized, it's made into something it's really not. Eating disorders are deadly. They're harmful. They are the second deadliest mental health diagnosis outside of opioid overdose. And it it's not just anorexia, it's not just bulimia, it's not just binge eating disorder. There's there's lots of different disordered ways of looking at food in between there. Binge eating disorder you can. You can have bulimic tendencies without vomiting. Purging is also working out in order to make up for your calories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and going back to what you said before about like these narratives that the fitness industry has around, like earning your calories, or like I'd see these challenges of like work the bird off, or yeah, like earn your Thanksgiving meal, and I can hate it, I'm just like oh my God, it's the worst.
Speaker 3:I want to throw punch people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do not under like I'm very. Like, like I told you before, I'm very I don't think black or white, like I don't see things black or white. So I understand that it's coming from good intention, but it's very like they're not aware of what they're saying or what they're doing. Like I'm like you don't understand that you're feeding into this narrative that like it just continues to like cycle in and people will continue to have this negative relationship with their fitness journey because you're telling them that exercise is meant to Like punish and like make you feel guilty for eating, when like eating is just. You should be able to eat and not have guilt around that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I don't know many people who are able to eat especially sweets and not have some form of guilt, which is really unfortunate, because that that's a form of pleasure, right, and your brain gets a dopamine hit and you're allowed to have that. But you just said something that sparked an idea in my mind about, oh the, the fitness industry or even the diet industry. If you get on social media between Thanksgiving and New Year's, you are inundated with weight loss advertisements. You're not going to get anything, from the noom diet to the injections, and while I absolutely understand that people have bodily autonomy they have the right to choose I think that they should choose after being educated, after understanding not only diet culture but their own body, because what diets do is, they say, you don't know how to trust your body, you're not working correctly. Let this idea be the thing that fixes you. The biggest precursor, one of the biggest precursors to eating disorders in general is dieting. It's a mistrust of one's body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great way to describe it and that had me. I wanted to say something. I forgot what I was going to say, but that's honestly where, like when I started to do health coaching and like get into it and like really like understand you know how you have to sell yourself and market yourself, like all you know the things that it takes to run a business I started to realize, like that's when I really started to realize the narrative behind it, because I was also going through my own journey and really trying to just learn more about myself. And you know, I had a lot of support when it came to figuring out how to run a business and I had a lot of friends in the fitness worlds that you know share, helps me and stuff. And that's when I just like really started to realize that fitness like a lot of people in the fitness industry will say anything to sell their services, even if it means like making people believe that they need to depend on fitness experts to be healthy.
Speaker 2:And that was the thing that I could not sit like. I just could not. It did not feel right anymore, where I was like this is like like people should not feel like a diet or a coach or whoever is the reason that they can be healthy. Like, I feel like we're just meant there to be guides and to support and educate, like you said, when it's needed. But people know what's best for them and they need to be empowered to like trust that they can make decisions that are best for them.
Speaker 2:And that's that's where, like, what led me into all of this is because I'm like I see stuff where it's like, oh, join this, like weight loss challenge, where the winner loses 100 or wins $100 or you know, like stupid shit, like that, and I'm like, but what is that teaching people like that we're only healthy if we lose a bunch of weight? Like, not everyone needs to lose weight and I just. The other thing that I want to hear your thoughts more on is the injections. I see I've been seeing stuff about that and I just like, don't, it doesn't sit well with me. But I've also heard people talk about it of like you know, people really being in a position of their health is really really bad and they're kind of desperate. So, like, what are your more of your thoughts on the whole injection thing? I mean, I don't even really know a whole lot about them, but to lose weight that way.
Speaker 3:So generally, the injections are blood sugar stabilizers that also like slow your digestion and so you feel fuller longer. The thing about the injections is I really have no place to have an opinion for anybody specific. What I can tell you is my opinion for myself is I wouldn't do it, but that is because of my own personal reaction to what the injection side effects are. But that side effect that I have an aversion to somebody else might be like that's okay with me. Again, it comes down to is this person educated and truly understands what they're doing? But not only that before the injection, have they had a good enough relationship with their body to be able to take the injection?
Speaker 3:So this sounds really silly, but I have asked people before who are starting diets like does your body want you to be on a diet? Does your body really need the stress right now of attempting to lose weight? What if? What? Right now, what it needs is rest, because losing weight is actually super stressful on your body and sometimes the best thing I have found is just to rest. Hold up, let's work on what's going on up here in our mind so that we do have a healthy relationship with food in order to lose weight. I'm not anti-losing weight. I am not anti-getting healthy. What I am anti is people believing in something outside of themselves.
Speaker 2:So what is your when you're working with someone like that and telling them, hey, like, trying to help them realize that there's a lot more of the mindset shift that needs to happen and be prioritized? Really, not everyone is in a mindset to hear those things. I think of people I know, family members, I know who. They just want the quick fix and they really just want to kind of do what they know and what has maybe worked in the past for them. How do you work through that with someone to help them realize the importance of focusing on mindset, which means delaying possibly losing weight, which is kind of be hard for someone who's really like, really like, really like, really like fixated on something like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay. So the first thing I do when somebody comes to me and their main concern is I have a struggling relationship with my body or food, is I begin asking a lot of questions, and I know that they're really invasive, but I have to be invasive to a certain extent in order to understand. So some of the main questions are tell me about your, your relationship to food and your body as far back as you can remember. That's going to tell you a lot. They're often going to go back into how they were treated as a child, what their body shape was, how their body has changed over time. Possibly comments from peers, especially at school, comments from family members, how their family members relationship with food affected them, especially mothers, very much so.
Speaker 3:And then another question is like if you it's called the miracle question in counseling if you could wake up tomorrow morning and you found that your relationship with your body is healed, what would be different? And almost always it doesn't come down to I will eat less, I will have more of the what is it called like self-legitity, I will do the thing, I will be committed. It doesn't normally come down to that. It comes down to I will wake up tomorrow morning and I will just live my life without thinking and obsessing about my body or food. That tells me a lot, then it's not really about the food. I mean it could be, but then what it really is is relationship to self. So almost always, even if somebody doesn't have an eating disorder and they're struggling in something else, such as relationships that can even come down to relationship to self. The majority of the people I know were not taught as children how to listen to their body. Were you?
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think so. No, because you think about the memories where they're like finish everything on your plate and it's like room full.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So normally people don't grow up going oh, I know, I was taught how to have a relationship with my body that's healthy. I was taught how to understand food in a healthy way. Normally they're taught from somebody else's perception of food, and what you're generally being taught from is not a healthy perception, and so the cycle continues. So that's a lot of what we discuss and really dive into in the first few sessions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you said something that really stood out to me when someone, if they could, just tomorrow, everything is healed and better, what it would look like, and the thing that you said was to just not even bat an eye at, like, my body. And I saw something on social media recently where it was like I've never, for as long as I can remember, I have not gone a day without thinking about an insecurity of my body and I felt that so much I'm like that is like so sad that like I can relate to that. I've never gone a day since I can remember where I didn't feel like some sort of like disgust with myself and it's like will that ever? Will that ever end, Like you know? Will that ever go away? Will I ever fully feel like I'm healed?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so hard to have a body right and like you can't get away from it. It is just there for as long as you have it and as long as your conscience, your conscience. So when you were talking about, like, the disgust that you have with your body, my personal opinion is that that is kind of expected. Society kind of expects especially women to have a disgust with their body, because if they're not and they are okay, or they like their body and they're complacent, then maybe they're not as beneficial, whether that's like being visually beneficial, or it seems like they've, you know, like let themselves go. I've heard that a lot. I've let myself go. What does that even mean? It means that I my focus is elsewhere. So there's this expectation to just connect back to this feeling of disgust because it gives you this false idea that it's going to propel you forward, into doing something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a struggle for sure with women and like feeling confident in who we are, because I mean even not just the diet and fitness industry, but the beauty industry.
Speaker 2:It's like it's all meant to point out oh, you need to be fixing this, or this is something you should be worrying about, or this is something that like doesn't look good and it's just constantly being fed to women, and even younger generations too, to where, like, I mean, I see and again, I'm not trying to judge other women for their decisions but I see women like my age, like in their 20s, getting like Botox and like filler stuff and I'm like I didn't even realize I should be thinking about this. You know, like that's the. That's what makes me think about it in that way, where I'm like I see so much of it now, where I'm like I didn't even know I needed to be worrying about this right now and now, all of a sudden, I am, and it's just, it's crazy how there's just always something for women to worry about when it comes to our bodies, the expectation to look younger and younger and to maintain the body that you had in high school yeah, both very, very strongly.
Speaker 3:But your body is going to change hundreds of times between birth and death, many, many times. And so the factor of rigidity of thinking. You know, if you're holding on tight to this idea that my body has to stay this certain way, I have to be this certain number, this measurement, and it deviates through life, it's really frustrating to somebody who has an unhealthy relationship with their body. Well, why can't I just be the size I was when I was 22? Well, because now you're 39, you know you, you've had life. Things happen, bodies change and that's that rigidity. We're trying to get back to something that may not actually be a point of destination.
Speaker 2:That's possible, yeah that's such a good point. I want to ask you, since you've been doing this for so long, what, what kind of like misconceptions do you see a lot of people carry when it comes to body image struggles for people and like eating disorders, like. What are some of the most common misconceptions you see?
Speaker 3:I think a lot of the misconceptions are that it's only women, it's only white, upper middle class women, that is, eating disorders are known as, like the white woman's disease, which is highly inaccurate and harmful because if you are not white and you are not upper middle class, you might feel like then you don't deserve the access to the resources in order to heal. So that definitely just needs to end. And then when people think of eating disorders, they think they tend to think of anorexia nervosa in its most extreme, somebody who is like near death, and that is absolutely some people's experience. That is absolutely happening right now to many people. But eating disorders are so vastly different they don't have a look.
Speaker 3:Many of people with bulimia are of average or minorly overweight stature, and the reason for that is because when you're eating food, a lot of the nutrients are taken from the food from not only your mouth but through your throat, and when it's in your stomach it's called the bolus. So by the time that you've chewed and it's gone down to your stomach, nutrients are already being taken immediately. So the idea that it looks a certain way is really harmful, because if it doesn't look like somebody is on the verge of death. People feel like they have the right to say whatever they want. You know the term like gosh, go eat a cheeseburger. Why would you say that to somebody you know? In the same game like stop eating cheeseburgers. Saying that to somebody who might be what's considered overweight? You have no idea. So many misconceptions. What you can visually see is such a small, small part of who somebody is. You cannot see an eating disorder majority of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good point and that something which no one knows this but we connected through my Etsy shop. I've been exploring, like making shirts and stuff with like the messages that I feel so passionate about and one of the other messages that I used to say it a lot on social media and I made a shirt kind of about it. But it was like stop commenting on people's bodies and then you know like skinny's not a compliment, guys, like just because someone looks a certain way, and then telling them they look skinny, thinking that you're complimenting them, is like, for one, you may be feeding into a narrative that they're already carrying that is very like skewed and toxic and you know not good. Or you may like they may feel like they're getting some sort of praise and believing, oh well, skinny is better than what I was before or whatever. And I wish more people would understand this, because I went through a weight loss journey and again, that was the whole part of where I really started to recognize the impact of people's words, because I would post about my journey and I was very like open about it the entire time and I would start to start like I would start to share about.
Speaker 2:You know the impact that I realized on you know, getting on the scale on a regular basis and just things that I was recognizing, and it was like people would not hear my message and they would be like you look amazing.
Speaker 2:Like you, oh my gosh, like you know, just praising my new body and it actually started to piss me off. I was like you're not getting it. I'm like I'm not sharing this so you can like continue to comment on how amazing I look now, and it was just beyond frustrating to the point where I was like I'm done, like I don't even want to like host a picture about I don't know. I just was so frustrating and, honestly, it's probably what led me to like this podcast and what I'm doing, because I'm like you don't, you're just like like even my mom will tell me and she's heard me say it a million times and I'm like stop, like, stop commenting on it, like it doesn't, it doesn't have. Yeah, I don't know I could keep going, but I don't know if you see this often as well, where people just like they get that sense of satisfaction if someone calls them skinny, or maybe it ends up kind of leading like triggering them a little bit.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely, 100%. And then back, I think, to the visual that people take in information through their eyes and they make judgments. So back to bulimia. You can be of average weight with bulimia and you can go to your doctor and you can say I am struggling with this eating disorder, here are all of my symptoms and they're going to look at that person. Not always, but, but I've had many experiences with with people who they say well, you don't look sick, you're of a healthy weight.
Speaker 3:I have had my own experiences. I'm five foot 11. I am not small. I am, I'm built. I lift weights.
Speaker 3:I will never be petite in any sense of the word, and I've I've been approached by people. They'll say things like keep going, I used to be your size, you know, like wow, and that's what they want to hear. What it is is a projection of self. It's they want to hear that. For them, they want me to think that I'm going to eventually get to where they were and be happier.
Speaker 3:The reality is that if I were 30 pounds less, my life wouldn't change at all. If I were 30 pounds heavier, I don't know that there's a whole big difference that my life would have. Like my kids would still be my kids, my husband would still be my husband. My work would still be my work. What does it change? It changes my relationship to gravity, a number on a scale and a thought process. Is that worth it to me? And I'd say, most days the answer is no. I'm not going to lie and say that it's all days, but I would say most days it's no. When I decided to stop dieting years ago, I remember telling somebody I knew I'm done, I'm done dieting, I can't do it anymore. And I remember them saying give it a year, let's see what happens in a year. And I was so mad. I was so mad. There was an expectation that I would go back to it.
Speaker 2:It's almost like they wanted you to quote unquote fail that mindset.
Speaker 3:Or the disbelief that that's even possible. So, gosh, I don't remember what the initial question was, but like, oh, the comments, people's comments, yeah Right, like, yeah, you just don't know. The reality is that you just don't know, and most people have a pretty complicated relationship to their body, food and the scale, and if you have a comment about any of those, it has the ability to really rock somebody's day. The best thing to do is just shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree, I agree and it's just it's. It was so crazy to like. I got to the point where I was sharing so much on social media about like everything you know, just my journey, and so I live out of state and that was like how my family, my friends back home, they were all connected with me that way, so they were constantly seeing my stuff and anytime I would come home, it was like people were just naturally bringing things up, like we would go to out to dinner or something, and people were like all of a sudden very aware that I was doing health coaching and they'd be like, oh my gosh, like I'm going to order fries, like Is that okay, yeah?
Speaker 2:like it was like I was being looked at, of, like are you like I'm judging them? And I'm like, oh my God, like I'm doing something wrong here, because, like I don't ever want people to feel like I am or they would say stuff about, like what I would order, like you just said, commenting on what I'm ordering, and they're like, oh, we should be more like Savannah, like we need to be ordering what she's ordering, and I'm like you, do you? Like I'm not, I'm just here to enjoy time with you. And it was just, it was so frustrating to the point where I kind of just like I think that that's what led me to slowly stop posting so much about my health journey, because I was getting that so much of that feedback. But you know, like I hope I hope that some people heard the message at least.
Speaker 2:And now I have my podcast, to where I feel like I can really just go down these rabbit holes and talk about it. I think that that's where that's kind of been. The sweet spot for me is I'm no longer just like feel like I'm trying to educate on on social media platforms, like I go on to my podcast and people feel called to listen to it. They will come over to it, but it's no longer, you know, like people are scrolling on the feeds and see me talking about it and whatever.
Speaker 2:But I want to hear your thoughts. I know we kind of touched on a little bit where you had said it's actually very common for men and I agree, I do think it looks a little bit different. But I want to like hear some of the things that you see a lot with men and how it can be super subtle and maybe we don't notice it as much because they're obviously not going to talk about it as much and share some of the feelings that they have about it. So I would love to hear your thoughts on it and how we can like be more mindful of it, I guess for men.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Well, first and foremost, men are just human beings, right, like as as much as everybody else is. So some statistics are coming to my mind Trans men have a higher percentage of eating disorders than cis men, and then bulimia is the most common eating disorder for men, or trans men in general. Athletes obviously have like wrestling or racing. Horses are even things like football are seen as a weight restriction, right, and in wrestling you want to be in a certain class and if you're above or below that class it can impact your ability to win. And so, again, very rigid, rigid ways of looking at I must maintain this, I must compartmentalize myself into this class. So the easiest way to do that for so many men Not easy in the sense of long term, but what their brains tend to go to as easy as bulimia.
Speaker 3:For horse racing, it's very much the same thing you want to be as light as possible on your horse but yet like nimble enough to make your horse go and to have authority over your horse. And then the flip side of that with football is these tend to be really athletic and large men, right, and like you were saying, their time comes to an end. And then what they what? What do they do with their body All of a sudden? Now their size isn't necessarily making the money, it's not necessarily an asset. What do they do now? It's a different perspective. So when men, when men struggle with food, it's a lot of the same ideas. It's a lot of the same characteristics. What I do notice is age difference. Men who are older tend to say things a little bit differently than the younger generations. So, like the younger generations, it might be about aesthetics, and for the older generations, it's not necessarily about aesthetics but comfort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say that I feel like the most common thing that I see or I'm aware of is men like saying like oh, I'm gonna get big, or like I'm working on, like I'm gonna get jacked up or whatever.
Speaker 2:I feel like at least the peers that I have in the people that I'm around, that's the most common thing that I see and I don't really you know, I've gone to a point where I don't, if someone like makes comments about themselves, I don't like to really like feed into it either way, again, because I don't know what's going on internally.
Speaker 2:But you know, I see like a lot of like pretty common for guys to take steroids and like use that as a way for them to build muscle really fast, and it's so, I guess, interesting for me to see like I really do believe that men struggle with it almost like just as much as women do to like meet this expectation of.
Speaker 2:I need to look this way and I also feel like there is a little bit of like. It's almost natural with like human behavior to want to like I don't know if be accepted is the right word, but you know, like it's, it's kind of in our nature a little bit to do things that make us appear to be more wealthy and appear to be more whatever. It's super interesting, but it's also kind of like where do you, where do you draw the line? You know like. I mean, I get it like it's in our nature to want to be accepted and to want to fit in and do these things, but at what cost at this point Can I comment on, like the need to be accepted and things like that.
Speaker 3:I think that comes down to a lot of anthropology. So anthropology is, you know, the study of like beings and biology and things like that, and like it's kind of like the combination of like psychology and sociology and all that. But what I learned in my anthropology classes was that it's not that the fittest survive, it's that the best-looking survive, and there's this idea ingrained in our animal reptilian brains that if we, the better we look, the more secure we feel about ourselves, the more we can procreate, the better our resources, the longer we might live, the more resources when we can give to our children, and that just like naturally comes from a survival instinct.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing that in my anthropology class and thinking like well, that explains a lot mm-hmm that explains a lot yeah yeah, well, that's what, like I feel like I've learned that and it's like it's so interesting because, again, like we, like you said, it's like almost like a survival mechanism too for us to behave that way. And I remember I don't remember what podcast I was listening to, but they were talking about how the wealthy even like going back to like medieval days, like Queens and Kings, like being like the, you know, doing things that, of course, like people who other people could not afford, like doing things with their appearance that, like people could not afford. And they compared it on this podcast to like the Kardashians of like the amount of wealth that they have and then the trends that they're setting when it comes to what's considered beautiful and just, you know that shifts over periods of time but then eventually it becomes accessible to the rest of you know, the, the rest of us, and then. So then I think of how, like plastic surgery, I feel like wasn't always accessible for people and then, slowly, you know, you see the celebrities with a lot of money like doing those things and kind of morphing their bodies and setting this new standard of what beauty is.
Speaker 2:But that's been, that's been happening since long before, you know. I remember they had said something about Kings and Queens kind of having a little more extra weight on them, and it just implied that they had more resources, more food. So it was kind of like a flex right. It's just this survival thing. It's just so interesting that that's just it's our human behavior to an extent. So, you know, I think that access to social media has kind of like made it like 10 times worse, because we see everyone and everything and compare ourselves and yeah, I mean, I don't know if you have anything to say on that, but that's kind of what I've learned as well about it all With social media.
Speaker 3:I think it's super important to follow people and pages that are authentic and realistic. If you are somebody my size, my height and you're following somebody who's five foot two and you're aspiring to be them, it's probably going to be harmful at some point, at least just some fleeting harmful thoughts. I have found it is incredibly important for me to only follow people who have my body type, my body size, and if they aren't, then they're very, very open and authentic about who they are. So that's that's one of the things that I would say to people is social media can be wonderful. It can also be really harmful and again, it comes down to the relationship, to the thing it comes down to, like how that person views it. There might be a person, or there are many people, who are able to follow whomever and whatever and not be affected by it, but if you are the person who's affected by it, you have the right to not have it in your visual stimulus. You have the right to not take that into your mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think like the biggest thing that that comes down to is having that awareness about yourself. That was something when I was health coaching. I like that was like the biggest thing I focused on was, like let's start to create awareness on, like where, what, your thoughts because, like, we're on autopilot all the time and these thoughts that we've carried for so long, like you, just you don't even realize that they're there, they're just apart, they're just a normal part of your day and it's like the more aware you can become of them, the more you can ask questions and that's in like I feel like that's where the healing can really start. To begin is like, oh, I didn't even realize how normal it was for me to like make a negative comment every time I saw myself in the mirror. Like it's just such a normal thing and it's like, why do I do that? Like what? Like? Why is that my normal?
Speaker 2:So I think that that's a good point that you had just on the social media as well. I want to get like a couple of tips from you on, like anyone who's struggling with their body image and wants to start taking action, like simple action today, like where? Like what kind of tips like three to five, tips that you would give someone who is struggling with it but like knows they need to make a change and want to make a change well as a counselor, my first and foremost is obviously counseling, and counseling with somebody who understands body relationship issues, and it's okay to interview that person.
Speaker 3:Hi, you know I'm calling to make a new appointment. I'm nervous. I've never been to counseling or this is something I've never talked to somebody about. Will you walk me through what this process might look like? I think that's okay, right? Second is changing your physician if needed. Look for a health at every size physician. Look for a fat positive physician. Look for a physician that does not force you to be weighed and does not dictate your treatment plan on your weight unless medically necessary. And if it is medically necessary, you also need to be really informed and educated about it.
Speaker 3:And then the third thing is practicing what's called body neutrality so I talk about this all the time in in session is people come to me and they're like I hate my body, how do I love my body? That is a huge jump. That is like a 180 right. You're asking somebody or they're asking themselves to do something totally foreign, without any small baby steps in between. What I have found most helpful is to go from dislike of something to neutrality, and then neutrality to like and then, if so, like to love, and I think body love is kind of the land that, like, most people just dip their toes into every once in a while, because if it's too much it's a little narcissistic, right like you've got a different problem. I think most people what they really intend is to live in the, in the land of neutrality, to like. So neutrality, body neutrality is.
Speaker 3:I have a body, it does things, that's it. It functions as a biological mechanism, understanding how the body works, why it works that way. We're not giving it any emotion, we're not giving it any thought, we're not analyzing it, it just is. I'm a biological species, that's it. And going into the neutrality land kind of is healing for people, because they don't have to attach pride or shame or embarrassment or disgust or anything. It just is. So that's what that's. What I would say is, first, work toward neutrality, and a lot of that is like look at your body and, from head to toe, what do you never really give much attention to? Like, how obsessed are you with your elbows? I don't really give them a second thought. Right, somebody else might. But I feel pretty neutral toward my elders. How do you feel toward your ears? How do you feel toward your hair, your kneecaps, whatever, and I think people will find that they actually have a lot more neutrality than they think they did.
Speaker 2:That's such a good way of viewing it Like I love that and I just I want to comment on two different things that you said. The thing that you said about not really like having any kind of like emotional attachment to your body I feel like I've kind of gotten to that point and you know I used to be someone of course I still deal with my insecurities, but I used to be someone who's very, very insecure and like really looked for that outside validation and now I hate it. I mean, I don't like hate's a strong word, but like I just like I don't care for it, like I don't want anyone to comment on my body. It doesn't. It no longer gives me like the validation that I used to. And so now, anytime I feel that people are like like if I'm in a room and like maybe I'm wearing like a dress or something, and I feel like, let's say, like men are like looking at me, like you can tell, you can feel it, and I, the younger version of me, would have felt like, oh, like I'm beautiful, you know, like people like the way I look, but now I'm like I don't look at me Like I like that.
Speaker 2:You know, like that's how much it has shifted for me to where, like, I am like if you're looking at me like that, you're probably gonna get a dirty look, whereas before it used to be something with that was so validating for me or so I thought, and that's a. I like that. That's kind of your way of thinking as well, where you're trying to help people heal that way, where it's just a neutral thing. You know, your elbows like it's, you don't have any. You don't have any dislike or like or whatever. It's just they're just there, they're just doing their job. So I like that. That's your approach as well. The other thing that you mentioned about like a physician finding that I feel like that has been the reason that I have like not gone to a doctor, because I hear that so much.
Speaker 2:Well, I just don't trust them. And you know, I recently went to the doctor. I went to urgent care because I was sick and I had to go twice and both times, you know, they weigh me and I'm like I don't need to know and I just turn around and they, both times it was different people. They made kind of like weird comments but I'm like I don't care, like and. But you know, the old version of me would not have had the confidence to do that.
Speaker 2:And that's something that I really I want to empower other people of like you don't have to like just because they're weighing you or whatever, like you don't have to know what it is, or you don't have to like make your like. You know, if you know that it's going to trigger you in some way, then don't put yourself through that. And that was like the first time that I really practiced what I preached, because, like, again, I haven't gone to a doctor, I haven't gone in forever. And yeah, it was weird. The first girl I was like I don't need to know my weight, I just left it at that. She's like are you sure? And I'm like pretty sure, like I'd, that's exactly what I just said yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like. What do you like? What kind of stupid question is that?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes. So that goes back to so much of what I was. What I talked about on my Facebook page for my business is empowering statements. It is so difficult for so many people to feel empowered in themselves enough to speak up. What they do is they shut down, they freeze, and the reality is that our voice is so important. We don't have the ability to speak up for ourselves without really doing so. You could, like body language, can speak so much, right, but you absolutely have the right to speak up in whatever way you want. This isn't about being polite. This is about like you go live in your body, I live in mine. Why did you just say that to me? What gives you the right to say that to me? Hey, I know a really great counselor. Would you like their card? You know like this isn't a time for being gentle. This is a time for your body to hear you say that you're standing up for it, because it might be the first time it's ever happened.
Speaker 2:And for someone who maybe isn't super empowered to do that, start like in the little things Like I heard that tip once where it was like standing up for yourself is not easy, like you just said. Start doing it in like the things that don't even matter. Like I don't know when you're going to grab coffee If someone you know, like someone, forgets I don't know your creamer or something instead of just being like, oh they forgot.
Speaker 2:It's like say something and like build your confidence through things that don't matter. So then, when it comes time to need to do that, like you have all of these examples of when you did it, even if they seem so like little and unreliable, like not relevant, like no, use that as proof to empower you when you need it.
Speaker 3:Because your body knows it knows that you have stood up for it, in addition to standing up for yourself and those small things. Stop saying thank you so much or I'm sorry. Stop saying I'm sorry so much, I got ahead of myself there. Women, when they're standing up for themselves, also sugarcoat it with oh, I'm sorry, oh, I'm sorry, and it drives me nuts, like men also do it, but it's ingrained in women in a different way from society, I think, and it runs rampant in the grocery store Like I could be going down the aisle and we could have three feet between us and another woman passing by would be like oh sorry, like for what?
Speaker 3:Don't apologize? Why the hell are you apologizing? So what I do is I kind of ignore it. I don't give that any attention because it's not my job to say it's OK Because she didn't do anything wrong. I'm sorry's are overused in order to make people feel better for taking up space. Instead of I'm sorry, it's thank you, but only when it's a truly thankful situation. Don't thank somebody for doing what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true. I did that. Oh my gosh, I was so proud of myself for at least not saying apologizing, because I was so like I just wanted to. But I was like no, I put my job earlier this week and I asked my boss if he would meet with me and it was super last minute and my instinct was to be like I'm so sorry, this was so last minute. But instead I was like no, don't say that, because I was like I need to feel confident in this and if I start with that, it's going to position me into a non-empowered way. So that's what I did. I said thank you for meeting me on such short notice, instead of saying I'm sorry, that kind of crap. So I totally agree with that. I think it's such a small tweak that you can make in your communication, but will make a huge impact.
Speaker 3:And empowering.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I don't need to say sorry.
Speaker 2:Right for what? Love it Well, Ariel, thank you so much for this conversation. I feel like it was really. I love this conversation. Is there anything that we didn't touch on or that you want to cover, or that you want to end with for the listeners?
Speaker 3:I think just being honest with yourself and not allowing any more from society to affect you Easier said than done, obviously, but sometimes we just need a moment to rest and that we don't always have to be on the hamster wheel dieting and we don't always have to be on the hamster wheel of the gym. And just because somebody in society says something doesn't mean that it has to be your story too. Sometimes we just we're neutral and that's OK. Neutrality is OK.
Speaker 2:I love that. If people want to connect with you, where's the best place that they can connect with you?
Speaker 3:Probably through my website, which also has my email and my phone number, and you are welcome to follow my Facebook, which is Ariel Newman LPC LLC, and see just what are the silly fleeting thoughts I end up writing down for everybody to see.
Speaker 2:Ok, perfect, I'll make sure I link that as well so people can click into that if they want to go check out your page. But thank you so much. Like I said, this has been great and, yeah, I really appreciate you being a guest on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks, for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, talk to you soon, friend.