Love Your Body Now
Love Your Body Now
Health Misconceptions, Body Image, & Men's Fitness Standards with Michael Ulloa
Michael Ujoa, a personal trainer and nutrition coach, joins us to shatter the myths clouding the fitness industry, particularly those affecting men's body image. Discover how Michael's holistic and evidence-based approach, helps everyday people and elite athletes alike find an exercise routine that truly works for them. Our conversation reveals what's wrong with the typical fitness messaging and how Michael's inclusive content is transforming the industry by educating and inspiring confidence in those who feel intimidated by traditional fitness paradigms.
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Today we have a very special guest, michael Ujoa, who is a personal trainer and nutrition coach. Michael is all about helping people navigate the fitness industry bullshit and misconceptions which I love, because you know that that is what we talk about on this podcast, and I have actually been following Michael for some time now and randomly just decided to reach out to him and see if he would be interested in coming on the podcast, since our messages align so much and I thought it would be so great to also have a male perspective when it comes to body image within the fitness industry and just talking about some of the struggles that men have when it comes to overall body image and we do dive into that today and he gives really great perspective on it and some of the trends and things going on within the fitness and diet industry right now. So you're going to love this episode and make sure, when you listen, make sure to share and tag both me and Michael and any takeaways that you get from today's episode. All right, let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Love your Body Now podcast, the podcast for women who are ready to feel confident in their body right now and redefine what health looks like for them. I'm Savannah, your host, and together we'll be having conversations about what it means to accept and love our bodies now, while simultaneously prioritizing our health journey. We'll be debunking beliefs that do not serve us and diving into misconceptions and unhealthy narratives in the fitness world, so that we can rebuild our foundation from a place of self-love. All right, michael, thank you so much for joining us on the Love your Body Now podcast. I'm super excited to have you on and just speak about some things in the fitness industry that you're really good about talking on and speaking on. So, before we get into it, please just share who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I we kind of briefly spoke about this before coming on, and I always welcome any opportunity to come on to podcasts and chat about this stuff because I, yeah, it's a really important topic, I really enjoy speaking about it and there's a lot of misconceptions, so hopefully we can kind of bust those a little bit for some people today. But, yeah, my name is Michael Ujoa. I'm an online personal trainer and performance nutritionist. So I've worked as a personal trainer now for around 10 years and previously I worked as an occupational therapist. So it's, yeah, quite varied work. I take quite a holistic approach to the clients that I work with because of my kind of previous hospital-based work that I did.
Speaker 2:I have been an online personal trainer now for around five, six years-ish. Half my time is spent helping everyday folk learn how to embrace exercise and find a way of exercising that works for them. I work from with everyday people all the way up to kind of your higher performance athletes, and then the rest of my time is spent creating silly videos on the internet, trying to bust myths, make exercise feel more welcoming, less intimidating and, yeah, the messaging. It's really hard to describe what I do, because I kind of sit in this weird space in the fitness industry that doesn't really have a name for it. I don't sit in one camp. I seem to annoy all the camps by not agreeing with everything that they all say and see, I would always say I'm very evidence-based or evidence-led practitioner. Um, I love the science, but I also appreciate that the approach we take with every client has to be unique, using all those different um bits of research and and my experiences in the past.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's probably a very bad way of explaining what I do, because I really struggle to explain what I do, but yeah, a quick snapshot yeah, I will, and I love that you mentioned, um that because we were talking about it of like how you try to speak on these things and help educate people and make fitness less intimidating. I think that was a great way that you described your content and, like, some people think that fitness health has to be one way or it has to be hard and it has to look a certain way, um, and you do a really great job at like just like making it way less intimidating, making it more attainable for people, um, so I love that you do that and, again, like you've inspired my content before and kind of like helping me gain a little bit of confidence through you in a way, because people are can be really harsh.
Speaker 2:I genuinely, really appreciate that and it's really important. I always, I always like to emphasize that I'm never like can I swear? I don't want to swear.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely like, can I swear? I don't want to swear from yes, yes, absolutely. I don't want to like shit on people's content here. Like I appreciate that there's so many different areas of the fitness world that cater to different people. Like I appreciate my content, my messaging isn't perfect for everyone. Like there's some people that maybe sit in the kind of more extreme kind of strength training a bit more, bro, if you want to call it that where the kind of motivational slogans and kind of that kind of dark, kind of intense motivation works for them.
Speaker 2:Like I sometimes use that in my training. I've got t-shirts with, like better than yesterday written on all this kind of corny stuff. Like I appreciate that some people need that, but I would also emphasize that there's so many people in society that are neglected by the fitness industry and that's the kind of people that I'm targeting my messaging at. Because I feel like most of the people that need the help of the fitness industry are being left behind by it, and that's why I always want to champion with the content that I do. I want to show that fitness and health promotion and everything is for everybody and it doesn't have to be this horrible, complicated, scary, intimidating thing. So, yeah, the fact that I now and again have other coaches saying that my content's inspired them makes me very, very, very happy. Um, so I'm, I'm delighted, thank you yeah, absolutely I.
Speaker 1:I'm curious like okay, so I know that you did occupational therapy beforehand. Like how did you transition from OT to personal trainer and like really develop this brand and message within the fitness industry? Like how did you transition from OT to personal trainer and like really develop this brand and message within the fitness industry? Like how did it all come about?
Speaker 2:Just really accidentally, I I was doing OT for a while and I knew that I didn't want to do it long term and I'm one of these people that's like I really want to enjoy the work that I do, as cheesy as it sounds. So I was doing long distance with my girlfriend now my wife at the time. She lives in Edinburgh. I'm originally from Brighton, which is south coast of England. She was all the way up in Scotland and I thought, right, I'm going to move to Scotland for a year because we've done long distance for a while, let's just do something that seems really fun. And I'd always really been into fitness. I played a lot of football. I did kickboxing growing up. I love strength training. So I trained quickly as a personal trainer because, as most personal trainers know, courses are very short. You can qualify quite quickly, which is a little bit terrifying, but can have its perks. And, yeah, I thought I'll do this for a year whilst I figure out what I want to do with my life. And then, yeah, 10 years later, I'm still here.
Speaker 2:Definitely, when I started off, I sat more in that bro camp that I spoke about like only doing strength training, not wanting to do too much cardio because it will ruin my gains and all this kind of stuff and just the more people that I worked with.
Speaker 2:And as I started to share a lot more, I'll put a lot more time into my social media content and speak to more demographics than I was ever reaching when I was working in a gym, one-to-one.
Speaker 2:I realized that slowly the messaging that I had with my personal training practice wasn't helpful for a lot of people, even though I thought it was you train as a personal trainer and they're like right, this is how you coach weight loss, that's kind of it, that's how it it starts. So you automatically assume that every person you're working with is wanting that goal or something along those lines. And when you start to realize that that can actually be quite damaging to a lot of people, especially starting in that place, I slowly started to navigate, reading the research, chatting to people that worked in this space that have been very helpful and supportive of my content and my messaging, and just over time it's just been a real nice slow progression of finding a way that I truly feel like now, with the messaging I'm putting out there, I'm helping people, whereas I didn't think that when I first started off, I kind of felt like I was just adding to the noise that you see on social media. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense because I had a similar journey, I guess. I mean, I did more health coaching in the beginning, but yeah, it was like when I was learning from other coaches, like how to get started online, all this stuff. You know, you're kind of watching what everyone else is doing and so you're trying to add into that and like, but yeah, I agree, like it felt like it wasn't impacting people the way that you know you want it to.
Speaker 2:Um, it's almost like a lot of personal trainers are like advertising to other personal trainers yeah, those are the people that we're trying to impress or we're trying to impress people that are really into fitness.
Speaker 2:You know, which is why a lot of kind of the imagery and the content a lot of personal trainers push is kind of showing themselves lifting weights, looking ripped um low body fat levels and stuff like that's. That's the messaging, because that impresses people that are already within the fitness space, whereas actually if your emphasis is trying to support people getting into fitness that haven't done it before, that can just put a lot of people off and I don't think a lot of trainers realize that yeah, and that reminds me of a post that you shared not that long ago, and I also have like, like, made a point not to do this either of doing transformation pictures, and I'm I would love to hear your take on that.
Speaker 1:Um, you know why you don't share them and what your thoughts are on them sure it's.
Speaker 2:I mean I, made a conscious effort a few years ago to never post transformation pictures and I think a lot effort a few years ago to never post transformation pictures and I think a lot of people view that as me being like don't ever take photos of yourself, like and that, once again, isn't the case. Some people find that motivating. I would maybe argue that why people find that motivating is interesting and we need to challenge that. But anyway, part putting that aside, um I, it doesn't show what the coaching process should be emphasizing and that's what I wanted to move away from. Any personal trainer can starve a client, get them doing crazy amounts of cardio and make them lose weight. Um I and I wanted I didn't want that to be the emphasis of my coaching style or my messaging that I was putting out there to social media. If people want to have a weight loss goal, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of clients that do have weight loss goals like I. Don't have an issue with that at all. The issue I have with it is when that becomes the sole focus and everything you do is around changing the way your body looks, rather than genuine health promotion and finding ways to improve your health through improving the nutrient density of your diet, finding ways of moving your body that feels good and can help prolong, or hopefully prolong, our lives as long as possible. Like I, I feel like we need to shift the focus of the fitness industry away from the way our bodies look, and that's why I decided that I don't really want to be a part of that anymore. I have many clients who like using before and after photos, so I'm I'm never going to say to them don't use that, I don't like it. Um, I would just say that I just don't think it's helpful for anyone else. Um, it causes comparison culture within the fitness industry, which I just think doesn't help anyone. Um, so, yeah, that's kind of my reasoning there.
Speaker 1:Um once, I'm sure there's many coaches listening that will disagree with me, but I I'm happy to stand by it yeah, how do you, when you're working with someone that is kind of in that mindset, how do you challenge that or how do you try to cause? You know you still want to work with them where they're at, meet them where they're at type of mentality, but how do you try to help them shift that mindset?
Speaker 2:Sure it's. It's funny, like a lot of coaches that work in body positivity, lot of coaches that work in uh, body positivity, body neutrality, space, uh, whatever you want to call the different areas of the fitness industry they won't work with people for weight loss at all, and I don't think that that's the way that we should be approaching this at all. Um, what I would say is, every time I speak with my clients, that still, I'm a personal trainer, right, most people that come to me want weight loss. It's just what people reach out for trainers for, unfortunately, unfortunately, that's always going to be the emphasis. However, I'd say that I'm happy to support you in that goal, but that's going to become part of the process and not our overall focus, and I think that once you start showing people that you can put the emphasis elsewhere and really enjoy the training process, that's when the magic really starts to happen, because it doesn't all become about the scale drop. This week has the scale dropped, has the scale dropped?
Speaker 1:And it's just soul destroying.
Speaker 2:So if we can work with them to say, yes, that can be part of it and that can be part of the process, but not put the emphasis on that every single time you're talking to them, I like to think that you can usually win people over and show them that there is a better way of doing it show them that there is a better way of doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that answer and like the place that I personal trained at they, when I was like coming on because I just do it part-time, they were like kind of like asking me questions, you know, and I'm like saying that like I don't like to focus on all the weight loss, and it was interesting because they kind of were like well, you know, people are coming to us for weight loss, like kind of like stay in your lane, type of you know, just get them the results. And I'm like OK, like it's all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really tough, and especially when, when coaches are starting out like I get it, because the way that you sell your coaching service is usually very visual. Like me, selling my personal training approach is really really difficult. Service is usually very visual. Like me, selling my personal training approach is really really difficult. Um, I'm telling people that I want to work with them for an extended period of time to help them work on their relationship with food and their body and exercise, and and that's a much harder sell than saying here's my 12-week transformation challenge I can help you drop x amount of weight, like it is really difficult.
Speaker 2:So I can emphasize and empathize sorry with coaches, the the, the struggle to shift to this way of coaching. Um, I'm very fortunate now that I kind of built up a bit of a following in social media, that the people that are open to that, um, I'm working with a wider pool of people that are interested in my content when you're starting off. That's so tough. It is so, so tough and I would love to say that I feel hopeful for the future of the fitness industry that oh yeah, a little shift this way it'll be fine, people will be won over, but I truly feel like it's always going to be a challenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. What are some of the biggest like misconceptions that you see, either like online or with your clients?
Speaker 2:specifically, there's so many like. I spend most of my time combating misconceptions. I think most of most of our jobs as personal trainers now is just being like no, that's not true, that's not true?
Speaker 1:Yeah it is.
Speaker 2:It is educating and myth busting. And my my favorite thing ever is when I write up a training plan or nutrition plan for a client that I'm working with and they're like oh, is that it? Like? I felt like I felt like there would be more. Um, and that's kind of. One of the misconceptions is that the things have to be really tailored and really laser pointed and that's the only way you can make progress. But there are a million different ways that you can write up a successful in air quotes um training program for someone to follow.
Speaker 2:There isn't a best way to eat for everyone. Um, so it takes a little bit of navigating and, once again, a harder sell. Um, but there doesn't have to be a diet with a name attached to it. You don't have to track calories, you don't have to do intermittent fasting, you don't have to do any of this stuff. Um. The way that you eat and exercise is completely unique to you. Um, so you need to start approaching your exercise and nutrition habits with that in mind, and it's tough yeah it's really really tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and there was this thing that you shared not that long ago which is honestly like. The reason I wanted to have you on specifically was because you had made a post about male body image and I have a couple of like male friends, but like not a lot, and I I know that there's there's a whole like issue with it, but it's not talked about. Like you know, you start to see more women talking about body image and in that space, but, um, yeah, I would love to hear like what you know you notice a lot with men struggling with when it comes to their image and fitness as a whole sure the struggles are just as I wouldn't say that maybe just as big.
Speaker 2:I definitely feel like it's it's harder existing as a woman in general let's just throw that out there with society like it's awful. However, when it comes to the fitness space and body image, it's men have it really tough still, but we just we don't like to talk about it. I've got some friends who will discuss this, but it's always like an underlying tone of kind of humor to it too, like that serious element isn't there. I just have to look at the, the demographic of people that follow me on social media and it is still very much more women than men that do, and but the expectations of how men are supposed to look and behave are still really high.
Speaker 2:You just have to look at kind of like superhero movies and how the ideal once again in air quotes is for men and what we're being asked to achieve and I would say nine times out of ten, those people that we're idolizing, they didn't achieve those physiques in a natural way. You just look like marvel movies, for example, like this ideal physique that we're looking for. Majority of the time those actors will be taking steroids and that's the way they've achieved those looks and I'd like that. Some actors have come out and have spoken about what it takes to achieve the kind of restriction and the obsessive exercising, um, that is needed to achieve those looks. I know that um, oh my god, I've forgotten the name.
Speaker 2:Guy plays Wolverine oh, I know you're shouting at their face, hugh Jackman, there we go yeah, um, yeah, like he came out speaking about how awful it was and how he had to, kind of there was like a few days of like huge restriction leading up to like a really short shoot, right, um, and and that's what we don't see.
Speaker 2:We don't see that. I'd say that most kind of professional fitness models as well are usually performance enhanced as well with drugs too, and so this, this image that men are chasing a lot of the time just isn't ever going to be achievable, unfortunately, and the steroid use rates are terrifying. Now people go the kind of normal route of starting training, eating right, and they realize that things happen very, very slowly and usually the only way they can achieve those looks that they want is by going down the steroid route. And yeah, it's maybe a topic I should speak about even more than I do, but it's something that I just I very rarely ever see personal trainers that are guys speaking about this stuff, so I really hope that we can have more coaches coming out and talking about it, because the pressures are there. We just don't really like talking about it yet and that's really sad.
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Speaker 1:Yeah and there was a scene with his shirt off and my instant thought was, like what is his body fat? Like that cannot be healthy. And like after the movie, I'm like googling and, like you said, he had mentioned what he had to do to get there. But, like, here we are, like idolizing this image, but it's like, but then it's like feeding into that narrative for men that they need to. You know, they want to get that, get to that point, and it's like not possible unless you're like harming yourself yeah, it's true, like I, I have strength trained now for like 10 12 years consistently.
Speaker 2:I have done marathons, ironman events, like I've done all this kind of stuff and I, every time I post a video talking about these topics, I will nearly always have comments from random guys on the internet. Usually their profile picture is kind of a selfie with their abs showing I'm criticizing the way that my body looks, saying that I don't look like I exercise, I don't look like I train, so how can I give people advice? Like our expectations and our view of what a normal body is now is just completely messed up, like it's completely ruined. You just have to go onto TikTok and type in like like physique or go like anything exercise related, and all you'll see is kind of really ripped people, usually taking steroids, and that is now our baseline. This is what everyone has to be striving for in order to be healthy and fit, and it just isn't true at all.
Speaker 2:I would even argue that a lot of these people that achieve these looks are anything but healthy. Um, they look great by societal standards but in reality is. Is their body in a good way? Is their relationship with food good? Is the relationship with their body. Good, like, how sustainable is this?
Speaker 1:um yeah, and I think if people were being truly honest with themselves, that people would not be striving for that yeah, it's tough and like I guess like I was kind of like not aware of it until recently when I started working in a gym and just started hearing more about like steroids and stuff. And then like, um, one of my guy friends like started talking about like how many people he talks to that take it, and I'm like, wait a minute, like I'm like what, I'm like this, what I'm like this is actually a thing Like a lot of people do this, but I mean, it's true and I just didn't know. So I do think that it's important that it starts being talked about more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you think we work in the fitness space and I think we would probably be surprised with how many folk are taking it right. So for the everyday person who is hiring a personal trainer because they look, they look like oh, this person must exercise and eat well, because their body looks great, like people don't know what's gone into achieving that.
Speaker 1:um and then those people that are more relatable and arguably maybe have better knowledge than a trainer, that is assisted, um, kind of get left behind or kind of looked down upon, uh, within the fitness world, and it's it's really sad to see yeah, and you mentioned like um, how like people, like guys, will like comment on your physique and like tell you, you know, like you have to look a certain way, like how have you handled those like hidden expectations of being a trainer and like feeling that expectation in order to like be respected?
Speaker 2:I guess yeah when, when it first started happening, when I first started creating content, I definitely took it quite personally and it did hit quite hard. If I first started creating content, I definitely took it quite personally and it did hit quite hard. If I might, I'd be lying if I said that it didn't. I'm quite a sensitive guy. Like things stick right, like I've spoken in the past about kind of my body hangups and my journey to where I'm at now and feeling kind of at peace with my body and quite confident in it finally. So I would be lying if I said that those comments didn't hit. But I've now got to a point where I feel pretty good with it. I've done the work and I feel good in myself and I now just use it. I kind of flip it and use it as content, like as that's kind of the best way to do it when you're doing the kind of work that I do is right. This person is messaging me this. Let use it as an educational um experience for people that are following me. Um, I would also say I I had a. Really is it a cool experience? It's kind of sad, but also a cool experience.
Speaker 2:Recently someone called me out on instagram. He was criticizing the way that my body looked, um, and I shared it on my story and a friend of mine, um, shout out to beth I mentioned the story once before but shout out to beth again. My friend Beth then messaged him. She was like that wasn't very nice. Why are you being mean to my friend um, which is the very best thing to do if you knew her?
Speaker 2:Um, and the guy responded the day after and he was like I'm really sorry, I apologize, like I was in a really bad place and I was just lashing out at someone, um, and it it kind of flicked a switch in my brain from that point of being like, oh, like, this is nothing about me, like they are directing it at me and I shouldn't be someone's punching bag. However, it's not about me and it is usually just people lashing out at their own insecurities, and that, ever since that point, it's become so much easier to deal with because I just kind of disassociate myself from the situation, right, right. So yeah, once again, I kind of like to use that as a as a bit of an educational experience for others, rather than dwelling because apparently my muscles aren't big enough. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I like that you do that, though I mean cause it's it's good that you're pointing that out that like, yes, like people are saying these things, but like use it as an opportunity to educate people, um, which is always a great thing, um, okay, last thing that I kind of want to hear your take on is this well, okay, it's like two different things. So this idea of like body positivity, promoting obesity or promoting unhealthy um, I'll let you answer that one before I ask the other one yeah, sure, I mean it's.
Speaker 2:It's just a really closed-minded take right, like I. Just I, I always try and put myself in the shoes of the different sections of the fitness industry that like to lash out with each other, because I just find it kind of interesting, um, and I can get it like when a group of people have decided, like we've had enough of people using us as their punching bag and now we're going to stand up for ourselves and we're going to shift the emphasis and put it somewhere else. Right, and when you, when they do that, they are therefore attacking the identity of a lot of people within the fitness space, like a lot of people that work in fitness and fitness is their life. Like, if you're carnivore, this is my identity entirely. Uh, so if someone criticizes that, they're criticizing me as a person, and so I get why some people lash out. Um, but the fact that, like, how can someone just existing in their body be promoting anything? It's just completely moronic when you break it down, and so, first of all, I want to say that that's stupid. Like no one being in a larger body doing health and fitness is promoting anything. They're just existing, right, um, if you then want to start looking at the messaging behind body positivity.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really cool nuanced chat. Um, you'll have a lot of people within the kind of body positivity space that will say that the way that our body is has absolutely no reflection, no correlation to our health status, and it's not really true entirely. Health exists on a massive spectrum. How one person's health is at a body weight is going to be completely different from someone else's. So, yes, you can have health at every size, but for every single one of us that's going to look completely different, and I think that's really cool. But I think that a lot of people struggle with that concept, um, and lash out at the thought of that being a thing, because they don't like that. Some people can be really healthy at a bigger size, and because that challenges everything that we're told about fitness. We have to look like a men's health cover model and if we don't, we are not healthy and it's just ridiculous. Um, so, yeah, there's some really cool chats about that, but also I kind of understand where some people are coming from.
Speaker 1:I hope that answers your question yeah, no, it does um on the. On the flip side of that, how are your like what's your opinion on the bodybuilding industry? And like people competing um in that? Because, um, I mean, I know a lot of people that do that and you know they talk very highly of it, positively about it, but in my mind I'm like how is that healthy? So I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we need to separate it from health entirely. One thing that I always want to highlight when I speak about the kind of bodybuilding world is a lot of people are within that world and have some serious issues with body image and eating disorders, like the eating disorder rate amongst competing athletes or any weight based sports are really high and a lot of people will use that as kind of a more socially acceptable way of manipulating the way that their body is. That's not to say that everyone that does that has issues they don't but I think that we need to separate it entirely. I don't think we're getting yourself down to extremely low body fat figures where you're really restricting food intake, doing crazy amounts of cardio to strip every bit of body fat down. You just have to look at people's health markers when they do that and it's not a good thing.
Speaker 2:So annoyingly, once again, because of things like men's health and TikTok and the way the algorithms are like, we still idolize the way that these people look. Therefore kind of the everyday person sees them as the authority figure, because clearly they must know what they're talking about, because they look amazing, and it just isn't the case like I see most of the dangerous advice given online by people that look how society says we have to look right and so, yeah, it's. Once again, I feel like this is quite a nuanced chat that we could maybe speak a whole podcast episode on, but yeah, I think that we we do need to shift away from viewing bodybuilding as a as a healthy pursuit, because it is is anything but that yeah, I agree, I like that you called it.
Speaker 1:It's more of like a socially acceptable thing that we're doing, but it's just. Yeah, it's um interesting that it is kind of a form of like fitness people in the fitness industry still struggling with that image but then going down that rabbit hole and using that kind of as their I don't know like coping in a way type of deal. Um, you know and I don't say that to like bash on anyone but I've also had like issues with like my relationship to food and you know, being in, you know I used to power lift, so like we had to look at our weight and you know we were classified in weight and so I understand that mindset around it sometimes.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I think it's, I think so many coaches would relate to that, though, right, like I think this isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I think coaches have to be a bit more self-aware that most people that get into the fitness world or the nutrition world too, they do it because they've had some previous experience that caused them to go down that route. Usual stories you hear of, like I was really overweight as a child and I lost weight. Then I went to help other people with their weight loss, right. Or I had an eating disorder and I overcame that and now I want to help other people improve their relationship with food. Like.
Speaker 2:These things can be good tools if they kind of inform our practice, as long as we're self-aware of how, of what negatively we might bring in to the way that we work with our clients too. And I think a lot of people, especially in the bodybuilding world, that's what they're doing. They see this pursuit of achieving this look and they start implementing these tactics with the everyday person um, and they see it as a healthy way to to coach people and it just isn't um right. So I think we just need a little bit more self-awareness. As personal trainers I'm putting myself in that bracket too, like we always have to be aware of kind of what we've done in the past and what might not be great about that, to make sure that we don't pass it on to the people we're working with yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else that you want to like, touch on or share before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:I don't think so no.
Speaker 1:This was a great conversation, though I feel like we got into a lot of I don't want to say controversial, but, like you know, I mean there's to some people right, it is controversial. And.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's things that I've said that some coaches listening to it would be like no, he's talking nonsense and like I welcome it. Like I, I think that there's so many different sections of the fitness industry industry where we need a real good chat about what we should be doing with the people that we're working with and as.
Speaker 2:I mentioned at the start, like the fitness industry, doesn't serve the people that need it the most, so my goal is to always try and bring in people that feel completely excluded by it, and the only way we do that is by having these discussions and trying to figure out a kind of healthier path for everyone, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Well. Thank you so much for again like sharing your knowledge and your takes on all of this. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Takes on all of this. I really appreciate it. Cool, thanks for having me. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. You have no idea how grateful I am to have you as one of the Love your Body Now listeners. If you are loving this podcast, it would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. This helps me get the message out to more women just like you, who are also committed to their journey. And if you love this episode, please be sure to share it with someone who you know needs to hear today's message. Together, we can help more women recognize their self-worth and build their confidence from a much deeper place, just like you're doing right now. Let's help change the world, one woman at a time. All right, talk to you soon, friend.